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Forum Home > Server Discussion > Ideas and Input for 206
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May 07, 2017 11:23 PM
Hollon Admin - Joined: Sep 12, 2010
Posts: 276
I may take a turn with Necromancers and head toward a different approach yet again.

The plans currently are to move from a full-on resurrection to a revenant, Necromancer-controlled resurrection, and from a WM-like gameplay to a more fitting thematic gameplay.

I want to go a bit further and have different 'forms' of Necromancers to fit the theme while still fulfilling the overall medic support class.

Soul Form:
Use Decay and Mass Drain, as described in the post above, to sustain yourself. Normal weapon damage. Allow pet summons and resurrection.
*Advantages: You have all your perks as a Necromancer, and you have potential for racking up kills through Decay/Mass Drain.
*Disadvantages: You need to constantly sustain yourself, and you have no protection at death.

Tether Form:
Tether your life to another player, or the host. Your HP will match the host's HP. So if you take damage, your HP will automatically readjust to match the host's HP. If the host dies, you die as well. No Decay/Mass Drain. Half weapon damage. No pets. Allow resurrection, but share the revenant XP between you and the host. This means that under the Tether form, if the host dies, you die, and all your revenants die. A delicious string of deaths!
*Advantages: You don't need to worry about your HP, especially when tethered to a medic/Healer.
*Disadvantages: You can't do much unless someone is dead, and even if you have a revenant, you have to share the XP with the host.

Phantom Form:
When you are alive, you will have normal weapon damage and pets, but no resurrection and no Decay/Mass Drain. Anytime you take damage that will kill you, instead of dying you'll become a non-corporeal ghost for a small amount of time, provided you have enough adrenaline at the time of impact. Sound very familiar to the Ghost ability? The difference here is that you'll have full control over your ghost state.
While you're in your ghost state, your health will reset to it's normal starting point. You will not be able to kill with weapons, but you'll be able to mass-resurrect players at no adrenaline cost. You gain the adrenaline that revenants gain. Once you revert back to your mortal form, you will not be able to resurrect again until you go into your Phantom form. This will repeat as long as you are above the adrenaline threshold to move between death and life(and each pass will take adrenaline). If you do not have the adrenaline at impact, you will die.
*Advantages: You have a shield from death, and you are at your most powerful in the ghost state by being able to resurrect an "army" with potential for high XP return.
*Disadvantages: You are almost helpless when in the mortal form with no sustainability, and you rely heavily on adrenaline to keep alive. Adrenaline return is highly dependent on revenant performance.

You will only be able to play as one of the forms above at a time. These are not subclasses, but rather different variations within Necromancers. This will most likely be a prototype for a Tier-Three system for other subclasses.

These ideas aren't finalized, still iffy on the Phantom form. But the forms are definitely a direction I want to go. I simply wasn't happy with just the Decay/Mass Drain feature.
Steam: hollon11
Last edited by: hollon May 11, 2017 12:08 AM
May 24, 2017 11:36 PM
Hollon Admin - Joined: Sep 12, 2010
Posts: 276
The groundwork has been laid for the three Necromancer forms and the Weaponry-Builder symbiotic link. Now it's just a matter of polishing and inputting some balanced values.

What I'll probably be working on next are some new turrets and the pet commands for Summoners. I'd like to wrap up with Engis and Medics before moving on to WM, AM and ClassicRPG.

For turrets, I plan on making a simple "plasma" turret that'll replace the Ball Turret, and then the Ball will be exclusive to Weaponry. I also plan on a Lightning Turret with both a projectile and instant-hit mode, and a Paladin Turret with a single cannon and shield mode which will be exclusive to Explosives. I also intend on further nerfing the Solar and Odin turrets. If anyone has other ideas for turrets or even sentinels, let me know.

The multi-user turret is most likely a no go for 206. I have a lot on my plate.
Steam: hollon11
Jun 06, 2017 8:25 PM
Hollon Admin - Joined: Sep 12, 2010
Posts: 276
Several things:
1) 4 new turrets:
- Stinger Turret, U1 style.
- Lightning Turret which will do more damage to Tech monsters.
- Skymine Turret, a nerfed version of the Hellbender's.
- Plasma Turret with two firing modes.
- Also added in secondary firing mode for Minigun Turret similar to Minigun weapon.
- I also plan on getting the Link Turret working again, but I'll need to test this online.

4 new sentinels:
- Assault Sentinel - minigun/machine gun ish.
- Sniper Sentinel - high range sentinel.
- Hellfire Sentinel - SPMA influence.
- AutoSniper (for Autos)

2) I plan on slightly changing how tech monsters interact with engineers. Rather than doing more damage to constructions, all tech projectiles will now bypass defense sentinels like the tech warlords currently.

I also plan on nerfing link damage, both to turrets and to the weapon. For turret linking, the first link is a whopping 75% extra bonus, then 125% on 2 links and 150% on 3. I've bumped it down to 25%, 50%, and 75%. For weapon linking, 1 link = extra 50%. Either I bump that down, or I make it so triple damage can not be used with the Engineer Link. I wouldn't mind too much on other non-Engi links.

3) Now to start on pet commands.
Steam: hollon11
Jun 23, 2017 9:06 PM
Hollon Admin - Joined: Sep 12, 2010
Posts: 276
I have been reworking Necromancers again, and now they're starting to feel like a full standalone class! Pet commands have been put aside for the time being; it would be better once I move on to monsters to work on the commands since they're a bit interconnected.

At this point, I am mostly finished with Engineers and Medics. Before moving on to WM/AM/Classic, I want to run an online test to get ENG/MM out of the way. I'll also be looking for package dependencies like textures, animations, etc. that I may have overlooked. You all may see a test server in the next few weeks or so.

Doing my best to speed things along. I don't anticipate Classic and WM taking too long, AM may take a bit longer.

Some screenies:

Necromancers get an "Advanced Ghost" ability where they can control their ghost-selves. Phantom Form will enhance this ability.

Decay/Mass Drain for Necromancers.

Assault Sentinels for Engineers, very much in the style of Goliath mini turrets.

Lightning Turret which will electrocute nearby targets.

Plasma Turret

Turret textures will be refinished by Dragon once I test them online.
Steam: hollon11
Last edited by: hollon Jun 23, 2017 10:13 PM
Jul 22, 2017 5:56 PM
Hollon Admin - Joined: Sep 12, 2010
Posts: 276
Online testing is somewhat complete with medics and engineers. Basically, I've fixed the major problems and left the minor bugs for a second screening or an A/B/C fix.

I'll be starting on WM/AM/Classic soon. Hopefully I can crank these out within 2-3 weeks and then get working on monsters.

For how long this project is taking, I may end up scrapping some concepts for the 206 release. The bonus wave 17 and the silly-for-fun skills for high level players will also probably be on an A/B/C version release.

Test server is still up for those who've donated and want to get a first look.
Steam: hollon11
Aug 05, 2017 9:52 PM
Hollon Admin - Joined: Sep 12, 2010
Posts: 276
I want to get things moving along, and this project has been progressing somewhat longer than I'd like.

I'll be putting AM subclasses off on hold. I want to go over the concepts a bit more, and I also have something else up my sleeve, so it won't be all bad.

Working on getting the critical bugs and issues fixed, and a few additional things like Magic Shield and Experience Gems, and then moving onto monsters.

ClassicRPG has been finished and now includes a weapon-upgrade system pre-subclass, and then two new subclasses- Melee and Core Classic. Core Classic is a boost in all core stats like Weapon Speed, Health, DB/DR, etc. The Rage subclass is a no-go for now.

The only change to WMs is the Sniper subclass, which now deals a permanent damage on certain weapons rather than having it distance-based. The only thing that is distance-based is when monsters are damaging you-- the closer you are to the source of damage, the more it applies to you, so it is still beneficial to keep your distance. And the Rail Gun is also included for Snipers. Should be a lot more competitive now with the other WM subclasses.

I don't plan on doing too much with monsters, but just to add some more variety so that waves transition even more smoothly. I'll be making medium-sized Pupaes, Razorflies, and Mantas that'll be a good fit around waves 5-7, a giant skeleton, and things like Cosmic Mercenaries, Tech Snipers, and Fire/Ice cows.

I still plan on modifying the gold and ghost pets too, so that'll be in this portion of the project.

Hopefully not too much longer now.
Steam: hollon11
Last edited by: hollon Aug 05, 2017 10:04 PM
Aug 25, 2017 9:57 AM
Non-member Joined: Jan 26, 2017
Posts: 11
I've long thought of this list and nearly all my suggestions are thought out.

as a low expierenced Summoner my idea's can be a little off sometimes and that is mostlikely because of my lack in expierence with it.

Summoners have a pretty limited list of summons so i come up with idea's that i would like to see in my list of pets
Here is my wishlist:

Changes to current pets:
Flakbags mp cost lowered to 6 instead of 8, this is because the current price is just too high and it's too ineffective to use right now.

Warlords having their Laugh animation removed again, Warlords become really ineffective with the current celebration animation, when they fly they drop down (sometimes even die) and then they have to retarget and repeat the same process over again

Titans suffer the same problem, they really arent worth summoning them because it takes too long for it to switch target with a 2 sec celebration animation

Cosmic Brute and Warlord mp cost lowered to 9 instead of 10, this makes a 20 mp combo with the titan, since the titan is 11 mp and its really awkward to try to combine it with other pets
Titan mp cost lowered to 10 (not the gold titan), the current titan is a high hitpoint high hitbox monster and takes every shot fired at it, it dies really fast and it's barely ever usefull. maybe 10mp makes it better for a second titan to summon

Geodude level 70 mp cost increased to 4, the Geodude lvl 70 is really strong, by far the best 3 and 4 mp monster to summon, i think it's too strong to have 4 up for 12 mp (or 3 as none subclass) this way it's better balanced out i think

Now enough balance changes

My wish list for monsters that should be added:
Gold Skaarj sniper for 7 or 8 mp, a high hitpoints hitscan monster (other then gold mercenary)

Elite mercenary added back for 5 mp, I'm not sure why they were removed in the first place but they really proof effective and medium/large size map as a 5 mp monster. i would love to see them back!

Gold Elite krall, just as a cheap 4/5 high hitpoint monster.

Shiny Geodude for 5mp (or even 6mp!), I once summoned a Shiny Geodude for 60 adrenaline with my Charm and i was really impressed by how good it was, i would love to see this tiny dude as a pet more often

Nali with random tier 1 weapon for 4/5 mp, this is more a fun pet that would be a fine add to the pet list.

Sliths and Slugs both added back, again not sure why they were removed.

Lava skaarj for 10 mp, i know it was a very effective monster back in the day, i've talked with older, more expierenced summoners that told me how the server got more hard monsters and thus the lava skaarj turned less effective, as the lavaskaarj is not nearly as strong as the Arctic Skaarj i would love to summon 2 Lava skaarjs at the same time.

Cosmic krall added for 6 mp, a cheap strong monster that i think would fit a 6mp cost

Cosmic Skaarj for 10 (or 9)mp, the skaarjs are the most aggresive and most fun to see fighting monsters, they would fit great next to the cosmic brute and cosmic warlord.

Cosmic Titan for 15+ mp, a strong god-tier monster like the queen and arctic skaarj definitely a monster i would wanna summon!

The normal Krall, Elite krall
Just for a better 2 MP and 3 MP monster variation other Then the poison pupue.

a entirely new pet!
the Cosmic Mercenary for 10mp minigun fire is shockrifle beams and secondary fire is Arvil/cosmic brute blast thingy

and the last change that i would love to see, a new command for pets!
I love to see my pets fight and it's really stupid that they sometimes follow you nomatter what, they even ignore monsters right next to them! so i want a new command for pets that goes by as "Search and Destroy" it's a command to get pets to stop blindly chase you and go out to find targets!

I hope all my idea's are helpful and get added!

Cheers, Scarlet
Last edited by: xscarlet Aug 25, 2017 4:51 PM
Sep 07, 2017 6:53 PM
Hollon Admin - Joined: Sep 12, 2010
Posts: 276
I will go forward with some of these.

I'm not fond at the idea of players summoning two Titans. I understand that they aren't efficient and agree that there should be more than one Titan pet, but this is more a matter of those pets taking up space and bothering other players. Spacious maps like Hangar and Snowbound Park wouldn't be a problem, but I err on the side of caution since we do have many smaller maps. This restriction applies to Queens, Slugs, and Giant Gasbags.

I also won't be redoing animations. Pets will be an exact counterpart to monsters, and this includes the same-species function. So if you find your Warlord falling to their deaths, you need to be summoning a different pet(most likely Ghost). Same with Titan pets against Titans or other same-species instances. I don't want pets to be good in every circumstance, and eliminating the laugh and fall for Warlords would certainly make it good in almost every circumstance. They key is to diversify your summons and strategize accordingly to the wave and map.

I've already added in a Gold Krall, Gold Sniper, Elite Mercenary, and most of the new monsters that come with 206. I'll add in Sliths; I never put them in since I didn't think people would use them, and the summon list is starting to get cluttered as well. Tech Pupaes and/or Flies may get added since those are a bit more distinct. I'll also go forward with some of your other suggestions for monster points as well. Ghost and Gold monsters have been buffed as mentioned before, and you can also become an Ice or Fire Summoner in Tier-Three(yes, this release).

In other news, 206 is wrapping up and I have the all-clear signal. A date and detail will follow.
Steam: hollon11
Last edited by: hollon Sep 07, 2017 7:00 PM
Sep 07, 2017 9:23 PM
Non-member Joined: Sep 07, 2017
Posts: 1
Hello there Hollon

I´m very happy that you are working on the druid's RPG mutator, I became a member in DC in 2006 back in that time I told Druid and Shantara some new ideas like the Monster Class and the Engineer and they made it happen along with their coder Szlat. The subclasses made the server unique until they had to sell the server to you guys which is good because you saved it from destruction.

Anyways I´m here to give you some ideas and balances to some classes.

**** Summoner ****

Search and Destroy Command:

Well first of all the pets need a search and destroy command to make them fight efficiently, they idle sometimes even when the summoner gets attacked, the function attack doesnt work properly I use it when targeting a monster and the attack message appears but the pets still idle. The pets should work as the enemy monsters they like search for their target in every corner of the map and when there are no monsters they just stop and dont follow summoner until you command it, with that I think even warlords which are very dumb ( I dont use them in any way because they act like meat shields.) will attack more seriously even with their laughs and backflips.

Make the search and destroy command a skill available only for summoners including the new Ice and Fire Summoners, make the skill cost around 50 points. We have to invest good money for that skill it will be like our main weapon. The summoner as I see it now it doesnt do any damage with main weapon because of the skill Monster Damage so we have to be hiding and healing ourselves while pets are doing damage.

Teleporter for Pets

It´s very annoying when you are summoning pets and they get stuck in engineers buildings or they cant be spawned because of objects near the summoner so the idea is like making a weapon that make a portal (portal gun) and you can spawn new monsters in that location, the portal could be placed in a ceiling or on the floor that would fix the location of pets so you can spawn them in a strategic area. And if the pets get stuck again inside a base then use the teleporter to instant spawn them into the portal so they get back to action without killing the pet.

Big Pets Issues

Some big pets like the Titans, Queens even Warlords are annoying in some maps so the teleporter could fix that and if you can resize them to make them fit in every map that would be nice so now we can spawn 2 of the same type without problems. Medium sized Titan or Queens would be awesome and unique but not affecting their HP and attack damage.

Dumb Pets act like Meatshields

This is the list of the pets which I dont summon too much because they tend to idle and walk without attacking but they receive all the damage.
All Titan types, All Behemot types, All Warlord types maybe they would be fixed if they had that search and destroy mode and stop following the summoner all the time while the action is near.

Pet adjustments

Some pets need to be re adjust on their points like Scarlet said some of them are expensive.

-Gold Skaarjs: these are good pets in last waves because of the heavy damage income from monsters they stay alive for a couple of minutes and they fight very good. Adjust points to 7

-Flak Bags decrease points to 6

-Fire and Ice Skaarjs decrease points to 6

-Mercenaries are weak maybe replacing them with Elite Mercenaries instead

-Geodude lv 70 are fine with 3 points these pets are very good on close combat but on long range they tend to miss all the time, these pets are good for some close maps or hallways. In big maps they are a waste they miss all the time thats why we summon other pets like the sniper.

Pets List and Keybinds

The monster points bar doesnt show which pet is summoned so we have to be calculating with the points bar which one is alive or not, so how about making below the bar a little list of which pets are summoned beacuse some pets have the same point cost and we have to wonder which one is alive if they are away fighting.

Keybinds for each pet, Its a pain searching in all the list back and forth looking for that pet that died or need to be summoned by the occasion. A Keybind will help resolve that and with the Pet list on screen will be easier to summon pets while running for our lives.

Last edited by: boltcrank Sep 07, 2017 9:33 PM
Sep 11, 2017 5:37 PM
Hollon Admin - Joined: Sep 12, 2010
Posts: 276
boltcrank wrote:
Search and Destroy Command:

Modifying controllers is difficult. It's an area I've never really delved into, and probably don't want to. It may be possible to take the existing controller for monsters and "flip" it around to attack the monster team rather than follow you, but things are usually harder than they look. I don't think the amount of effort this requires is worth a different controller. Pets certainly do follow you, but most only do if they don't have a target to attack.

boltcrank wrote:
Teleporter for Pets

This is an issue I can get behind since there is no real solution for pets getting stuck behind bases. I attempted a function this release that would've teleported pets toward their Summoner, but with no success. I plan on continuing with this for later releases.

In the past, I included a teleport function for pets similar to the ones Queens and Necro monsters use, but this made pets good in every circumstance and gave too much an offensive style.

boltcrank wrote:
Pets List and Keybinds

These would also be difficult for me and would require some more time. Interestingly, the pet summons are all part of one artifact that serves as the nexus for monster summoning. I'd have to find a way to isolate the individual pets, such as by the name string or class, and make a keybind out of them. Maybe sometime in the future.

206 release is scheduled for this Sunday the 17th. I'll provide details in a separate thread.
Steam: hollon11
Last edited by: hollon Sep 11, 2017 6:43 PM
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