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hollonPM
#1
The Weapon Master Subclass
Dec 20, 2013 1:59 PM
Hollon Admin - Joined: Sep 12, 2010
Posts: 276
Greetings all,

There is one subclass added on the server: The Heavy Infantry for weapon masters. It combines the aspects of the tank subclass and the skilled weapons subclass from old DC. Here are the specifications:

- Loaded Weapons 3 (all weapons including super weapons, basic random magic modifier chance)
- Regen (3)/Denial (2)/Vampire (10)/Resupply (4)/Magic Vault (1) same as base WM
- Increased Damage 5
- Increased Protection 5
- Weapons Proficiency 5
- No Quickfoot, no Power Jump, no Air Control

For those who aren't familiar, Increased Damage increases cumulative damage by 30% per level. That's 150% more damage, but at a reduced firing rate. Increased Protection reduces damage by 5% per level, so, at a max of 25%, but decreases agility.

The weapons proficiency adds damage at .0005 per level per kill. So, multiply your kills of a certain weapon by .0025 if you have a maxed level of weapons proficiency, and that's your increased damage (there is a cap).

This subclass, in essence, focuses on raw damage output. In compensation, firing rate and agility are reduced, along with the capabilities of magic weapons (though you can still use the magic weapon maker).

Open for discussion, and the subclass subject to change.
Steam: hollon11
hollonPM
#2
Dec 20, 2013 8:35 PM
Hollon Admin - Joined: Sep 12, 2010
Posts: 276
150% damage, plus weapons proficiency, proved a little overbearing as Dragon demonstrated tonight. I'd like to keep 5 levels of Increased Damage, to keep the slow firing rate, however, I think reducing the damage from 30% per level to 15% per level will suffice. 15% matches with the Berserker's damage bonus of 15% per level (though theirs depends on how close to an enemy they are). This will be a cumulative of 75% more damage, in lieu with the Warrior's 75% berserker damage.

As for the weapons proficiency skill, if I've interpreted the code right, the default damage cap is 2.00 (as in, 200%). I'm supposing the reason why the cap is so high is because weapons proficiency was a subclass on its own in old DC. At a max of ability level of 5, you multiply the number of kills you have with .0025 to get the percent increase in damage. So, 200 Flak kills * .0025 = 50% damage bonus, much lower than the default cap of 200%. (and 200 flak kills is standard for a game from what I've observed).

We can either set the cap at a stable rate (this depends, by observation, how many kills each weapon can get each game, and then set an appropriate cap based on that number) or, we can make the proficiency skill standard across all WMs and the Warrior.
Steam: hollon11
jefejefejefePM
#3
Dec 21, 2013 3:40 AM
Jefe Co-Owner - Joined: Jul 05, 2010
Posts: 410
I think it will be simpler to just drop the proficiency max to 2. That will give a bonus of 20% at the end of the match for 200 kills. Nice, but not overwhelming like it is now.
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Last edited by: jefejefejefe Dec 21, 2013 3:49 AM
jefejefejefePM
#4
Dec 22, 2013 11:58 AM
Jefe Co-Owner - Joined: Jul 05, 2010
Posts: 410
Proficiency max is back to 5 for the subclass. It now caps at 135% damage. The enhanced damage bonus is now 15% instead of 30%.
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hollonPM
#5
Dec 26, 2013 2:46 AM
Hollon Admin - Joined: Sep 12, 2010
Posts: 276
I still feel the subclass is a little strong.

Heavy Infantry does a flat 75% damage. Add on weapons proficiency, then add on the damage increase if your weapon is magic, then you have about constant double damage.

In contrast, warriors aren't always guaranteed a flat 75% damage. Theirs depend on how close to an enemy they are. Plus, they take more damage if they're closer to enemies. Not only that, but they also only have a max of level 2 proficiency, and the same magic weapon chance as Heavy Infantry. In my opinion, slower movement and slower firing rate is just a small tradeoff for what the Heavy Infantey receives.

In the next RPG rollout, Heavy Infantry won't be able to pickup Triple Damage.

I also think, as Dragon suggested, that the cap for weapons proficiency should be reduced. I also think, to keep them from using the same weapon (thereby, increasing weapon proficiency), resupply should be reduced to level 2 or 1. The slow firing rate won't affect it terribly, but it'll be low enough to keep them from overly maxing a weapon proficiency.

I could also make it, so, Heavy Infantry can not pick up a magic weapon maker, or a plus one modifier. Magic weapons deal a minimum percent damage to monsters already. Additionally, I could make certain types of magic (ie piercing) restricted from the subclass.

Thoughts?
Steam: hollon11
Last edited by: hollon Dec 26, 2013 2:56 AM
jefejefejefePM
#6
Dec 26, 2013 2:22 PM
Jefe Co-Owner - Joined: Jul 05, 2010
Posts: 410
Knocked the Proficiency max back down to 2 and Resupply to 2.

I don't think it would be very fun to play without MWMs or plus ones.
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flak_monkeyPM
#7
Dec 26, 2013 2:33 PM
Flak_Monkey Member - Joined: May 27, 2009
Posts: 33
Each class/sub class has to have it's own perks, or what's the point of playing it. There cant be the "one class to rule them all" but let's not make it so the class just is not desirable to play. At one point, I may want to try switching over to my WM and do a subclass. I do miss my Zerker. It had punch, but anyone who played it knows, you can die easily as well. 2 sides to that coin. I guess you could approach this method of balancing as to a scale. The more you add to one side, the less the other is. It's a 1 to 1 ratio to what you gain to what you loose in contrast. I think that's the simplest way to balance any class. That's just my 2 cents. Anyone to raise it a nickle?
dragon7350PM
#8
Dec 26, 2013 10:43 PM
Dragon7350 Member - Joined: Oct 11, 2013
Posts: 152
flak_monkey wrote:
That's just my 2 cents. Anyone to raise it a nickle?


I'll raise it a nickle. Making a subclass a scaled version of the base class might be easier to balance but still keep interest. Or there's my permanent-boots-of-flight-captain idea...

hollonPM
#9
Jan 05, 2014 1:09 AM
Hollon Admin - Joined: Sep 12, 2010
Posts: 276
flak_monkey wrote:
I guess you could approach this method of balancing as to a scale. The more you add to one side, the less the other is. It's a 1 to 1 ratio to what you gain to what you loose in contrast. I think that's the simplest way to balance any class. That's just my 2 cents. Anyone to raise it a nickle?


Yeah, we're trying our best to balance subclasses. Heavy infantry had advantages over the regular WM and warrior, which is why we had to tone it down.

Aside from that, I've been hearing several people wanting the berserker and extreme WM back. Just for clarification, the Warrior is essentially the Berserker class.. only, it's separated from the WM. Its original concept was to be a 'classless,' hardcore class (although you could just not pick a class as well).

Any thoughts on the berserker/extreme WM? Perhaps we can extend the base WM to become extreme WM at a later level?
Steam: hollon11
xns_xdxwPM
#10
Jan 05, 2014 1:41 AM
cancer Member - Joined: Nov 17, 2013
Posts: 27
i can't specifically remember what extreme wm had besides loaded weapons 6 (same as 5, but all magic weapons were max), vamp 15? (might have been 20, it was a bit ridiculous though) and the same advanced damage bonus regular WM could have. so esentially it did the same damage as a regular WM, but slightly more since the magic weapons were all maxed. there might have been something else it had that "vanilla" wm didn't have.

subclasses, at least in my opinion, should have advantages over their "vanilla" class counterparts. pretty sure that was the original intention of them. i didn't see much wrong with heavy infantry, besides the fact proficiency was way too high. i recently played it, and with the right weapon you can be near invincible (master guard flak maxed and +1'd worked well for me) but i did still die. i mainly don't like playing it because it felt so slow (i understand the point why) and when i play my wm i really just want to run, jump and frag as quickly as possible and search for the next target.

thinking about everything, it almost seems like maybe we should swap what the warrior class has (similar to beserker) with the current heavy infantry. that would bring the option for people who played bezerker on their WM to continue that and not have to start a character completely over. i wouldn't mind having extreme wm brought back, but bezerker being available for wm would be fine as well.
cancer - EM | JEB - Gen | 91/30 - WM | nx2k - MM
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